As a session melody instrument it has some disadvantages. He started a lot of tunes, he could be heard well, he played melody. I thought it was bouzouki is for backing and OM is for melody. I play melody on mandolin, octave mandolin, and a bit of flute. One of the other musicians at my local session plays Octave Mandolin, and he once let me play a tune on it; it was the most satisfying instrument to play melody on, even though it sounds great playing backup on as well. >>>: "No. If the fiddle players don’t like it then they can go get another beer, or add in lots of rolls to keep ‘em busy. It is mostly used for mandolin orchestras as an alternative for mandolas, and it can be used in playing traditional Irish music. Models from Eastman, Erin, Agnew, Phil Davidson, Tanglewood, Buchanan, Crafter, Ozark, Countryman, plus other quality makers. I play the octave more than the mandolin these days. FWIW. It’s main value was as a beginning instrument as it only cost about $400 USD. Heck our learner session is starting to get 16 people frequently and only 3-4 of us play in the later main session too. I can strongly recommend anything made by this man http://www.osborneguitars.co.uk/octave-mandola-2/ (and not *just* because he’s a friend of mine ). American/Gibson inspired mandocellos seem to be around 25"-26" scale length, which is about the same as an average guitar. Its relationship to the mandolin is that of the tenor violin to the violin, or the tenor saxophone to the soprano saxophone. In my Guide to Octave Mandolin and Bouzouki book/CD set I go into specific details about my approach to playing octave mandolin- fingerings, chord voicings, approaches to Irish style accompaniment, etc. Here is an example of the octave mandolin played in an unusual setting: The Wayfaring Strangers. My opinion and not worth much. My impression - listening to , rather than playing - an OM, is that the sound gets lost in a session of more than 3 instruments. After tune playing became more of my focus, I bought an OM to make the tune playing a bit easier. The other A string goes sharp too, but not as much or as often as the other. This figure shows 12 essential mandolin chords. Learning how to play the mandolin can be a fun and rewarding experience if you take the proper steps to build up your skills. Octave mandolin at Banjolin gives an explanation of why Europeans use the term “octave mandola”. His fingers are not particularly long. Clark’s A- and F-style mandolins are built in the Gibson tradition (check out our demo of a 2016 Clark F5), but his three octave mandolin models showcase his original designs.Fiddler and mandolinist John Mailander recently stopped by the … One of the advantages of octave mandolin over differently-tuned instruments is that a mandolin player can pretty much retain what has already been learned and transfer it to the larger instrument. The point is that some mandolin chords are impractical on octave mandolin because of the finger stretch required. This means that I often play 5th fret notes with the pinky, and move the hand vertically along the neck if I need the 6th and 7th fret notes when I am in "open position". Octave mandos are often tuned GDAD (bass-to-treble). Crisp highs and resonant mid range tones! When I’m playing for a dance, I use the banjo for reels and jigs, and the OM for Waltzes. Hi- Just to mention another option, I play melodies on a 1995 Flatiron mandola strung with Thomastik 174 heavy flatwound and tuned to GDAE, the octave below the mandolin. It’s a great sound but can be limiting without a capo. Here's an overview on how to balance string gauge, neck relief, bridge radius, action height, intonation and string height to make your mando play great. The octave mandolin really finds it's own sonic space in the band, rather than guitar (which tends to get lost among the banjo, piano and drums) or mandolin (whose range is duplicated by the violin). It took 701 miles of driving though. "justjim - ‘learn cello fingering’ - you’re not talking about retuning to CGDA surely?" It is mostly used for mandolin orchestras as an alternative for mandolas, and it can be used in playing traditional Irish music. There are a bunch of different ways to play, but here are some basic chords for tunes in the key of D: The closest acoustic relatives to the mandolin include the mandola, octave mandolin and mandocello. r/octavemandolin: This is a sub for octave mandolin and irish bouzouki players to share resources, play songs, and just share a common love for this … I play melody on both and my OM has almost exactly the same scale length as the banjo so the fingering is identical. And you might experiment with GDAD, ADAD, AEAE, or other tunings. If you can play a reel in the neighborhood of 112 bpm on your OM with ease, then just ignore this part. I think there’s a reason why the tenor banjo is the only lower-pitched instrument that’s become a solid part of the tradition for melody playing in Irish trad. This Train MP3 audio file (458K download). For the other session I bring the banjo and fiddle as we usually have 6 box players a gaggle of whistle/flute players, some pipers, and a bunch of fiddles. It all depends on the instrument, of course. The problem with the high A, B & C notes on the mandola can be very easily overcome by playing in 4th & 7th "positions" {as in classical guitar method} where necessary. The paired strings just seem too "muddy’ to me as a melody instrument when thrown in to the mix of all the other melody instruments. The OM is perfectly capable of being a loud instrument, and it has a beautiful sustain. Also, with increased sustain (which, as justjim points out, is great for ornamentation and crosspicking) comes decreased attack, so the beginnings of the notes can become indistinct in among the other instruments. Some mandolin models have 10 or 12 strings. I don’t know what I’d do without ‘Cello’ fingering, or ‘Guitar’ fingering for that matter. They tend to be rather strong in the low-mid frequency range and weaker in the high-mid area. Weber Sage#1 Octave Mandolin with McIntyre Feather pickup I bought this wonderful Sage#1 octave mandolin from in 2011 and have been playing it off and on for the past couple years. The problem with OM is that they often sound great when you’re playing by yourself, but get lost in the middle of a louder session. ‘Cello fingering’ just means using 1 finger per fret rather than having one finger govern two frets - so you would shift to a higher position in order to reach the 7th fret. These beasts tend to have much more sustain than traditional mandolins. This does, however, depend on your budget - archtop octave mandolins are relatively uncommon and, unlike their flat-top counterparts, don’t really come in budget models. It doesn’t cut as well as a Mandolin and that’s just fine with me, so it can get lost in a loud, noisy session. There is no hard-and-fast rule. Ready for your Celtic-style strumming, tuned GDAE. I play tenor banjo and mandolin, and I’m satisfied with both. I play banjo, mando and OM. Before you buy an OM/zouk, try a downtuning and capo on yours so you can see what scale length you want. For melody, not so much, especially in a session. The heel of my hand rests on the edge of the bridge and this is deadening the sound. One thing you might be able to do is go to one of the festivals or camps that are for players (as opposed to the festivals that are meant to connect people with their inner celtic-ness, and feature rock bands and sword fighting). The OM works well for backing. This instrument is in excellent condition. Thanks. Also, the wider fret spacing and larger neck make it less agile than the mandolin -- harder to play really fast melodies, unless you're quite advanced. What I’m about to say may be discouraging, but it’s just one person’s opinion. justjim - ‘learn cello fingering’ - you’re not talking about retuning to CGDA surely? Hello, my question is most likely one of varying opinions but I love playing tunes on my Trinity Octave Mandolin and I’m searching for recommendations on what you prefer for this approach to playing melodies. So I suggest keep it up and make a go of it. I know one guy who removed the extra strings to make it a 4-string, which worked well for him and gave it a bit more "cut". 1 3/8 inch nut width and very comfortable action. Visit NorthfieldMandolins.com If it’s within your means, something like this might be worth a try https://tinyurl.com/yxpno3lp (I cannot *recommend* it as I have never tried one, but having tried their mandolins, I think you would get good value for money). Holy Cow Steve! ‘Irish bouzouki’) and an octave mandolin is scale length (and even then, there is a grey area). Weber Sage#1 Octave Mandolin with McIntyre Feather pickup I bought this wonderful Sage#1 octave mandolin from in 2011 and have been playing it off and on for the past couple years. That session is generally between 12 and 20 folk’s playing with only 1 or 2 guitars and 1 or 2 bodhran’s. Being a banjo player is totally cool though, as long as you aren’t one of those evil people who play with their picking hand open. Ensemble members are Greg Rohrer on mandolin; Kevin Neidig on mandolin, octave mandolin, and vocals; Tom Cook on mandola, mandolin and vocals; and Henry Koretzky on mandocello, mandolin and vocals. Wow, 5-6 sessions a week! >>>"looking into an upgrade that will give me a chance to be heard as a lead player along side of fiddles and tenor banjos." Even banjo’s are hard to be heard in that session. I do play the tenor banjo too, so I’ve slid down the slippery slope haha. That last session of yours has more trad box players than the entire state of Arizona - and it’s pretty much the case with the other instruments as well. Over the past decade or so, Boise, Idaho, luthier Austin Clark has established himself as a well-respected builder of mandolin-family instruments. An octave mandolin in very clean condition, features a X-braced solid spruce top, modern tuners and an easy playing 21 fret rosewood fingerboard. As a session melody instrument it has some disadvantages. The other problem as a melody instrument is the combination of low pitch, relatively soft attack with double course strings, and "dark" timbre (especially carved archtops like my OM). ; John McGann on Octave Mandolin John McGann, author of Guide to Octave Mandolin and Bouzouki proposes standardized terminology, and discusses a variety of issues on playing the octave mandolin. Some players (either melody players or backers) might prefer the shorter scale length for general comfort. I am not a fan of split courses (eg the G string having a low G and a G one octave higher on it). (Like a 12 string guitar, where you have a low G and the second G string on that course is an octave higher). I believe the heel should ideally be resting behind the bridge, but when i do that my pick is too far from the hole of the body and the sound is not great. Take care. The longer scale of the bouzouki gives it more sustain and sweeter overtones, making it more suitable for chordal and arpeggiated accompaniment. Everything you’ll ever need for mandolin is right here at Eagle Music. With its 23 1/2 inch scale. On the other hand, your fingers may be longer than mine, or just younger and more flexible. The Harrisburg Mandolin Ensemble draws from this tradition, but on a smaller scale. Why would an OM be different from a mandolin which also has octave strings and is quite commonly used for melody? Carved/arched top and back would probably cut through more but also make OM more expensive, prohibitively so for many. I feel the same way about ‘zouks. History of Mandolin. A mandolin is a string musical instrument, belongs to the lute family. I’m not personally in favor of the octaves since the break between the octave and normal pairs fall smack dab in the middle of typical trad tune range. There used to be a guy who came to our session with an octave mandolin. The octave mandolin is often favoured for melody because its shorter scale length makes the fingering more comfortable and gives a slightly punchier sound. Belonging to the mandolin family, the octave mandolin is an instrument with four pairs of strings tuned in fifths, G, D, A, E. Just as the name implies, this instrument is an octave below a regular mandolin. I combine guitar and mandolin fingerings, depending on the line. But it’s still a slippery slope down to the banjo, he says, speaking from experience… . When designing the Coombe octave mandolin, the overall consideration was to make it easy and comfortable to play, and of course to make it sound good as well. Anyhow, the scale length on my OM is 20.5" so rather short (it does have a very large body though). I had a Luna "Celtic Knot" bouzouki with the octave string set-up. Especially if there is already a guitar or bouzouki occupying that tone range You may have better luck than I’ve had, especially if you’re playing a brighter-sounding instrument than I’m using. When designing the Coombe octave mandolin, the overall consideration was to make it easy and comfortable to play, and of course to make it sound good as well. Sarah Jarosz is a gifted multi-instrumentalist (mandolin, octave mandolin, guitar, banjo), an expressive and distinctive vocalist, and an accomplished songwriter. What I’m about to say may be discouraging, but it’s just one person’s opinion. I feel that the guitar body and scale length contribute to a wide dynamic range for the instrument, facilitating all kinds of music and styles of playing. "I thought it was bouzouki is for backing and OM is for melody." With its 23 1/2 inch scale. I have a Goldtone OM that does not cut at all and is better for backup. Many octave mandolins are large instruments with a long scale length that make them difficult to play. GDAE Anyway one of my A strings is constantly going out of tune, always trending sharp. I don’t have the repertoire nor skills to want to be above the din very often though. It’s a lot harder to derail a session with an OM than a banjo. I use a Buchanan octave mandola {scale: 500mm / 19.68" } tuned GDAD for playing melody & an old Gibson Blue Ridge {1969} guitar in G / D modal tuning {DADGBD} for accompaniment. The Pono Octave Mandolin synthesizes the sustain and tonal depth of an X-braced flat top guitar, with the neck and double coursed tone of an octave mandolin. Dec-12-2019, 11:10am #9. He was great. It has a wonderfully rich, delicious ring with the easy reach of a 17 in scale. As for speed I’m slower on the OM, partly because of the fingering, but mostly because I like how the OM sounds and tunes are wonderful on it at a slower pace. Willie Week, Catskills, Swananoa, O’Flaherty, etc. As a backing choice it works because they play many notes the melody players aren’t. Mandolin emerges in Italy at the end of 17 th century. That can give it more of a sound that stands out, and is less "muddy". But seriously, do not abandon the OM. This solo is played entirely in open position, so it can provide some good material for fingering experiments. Joe Cooley’s, Merry Blacksmith, Lucy Campbell’s, etc. Of all three I have found the OM to be the one that is not heard in a session. What I’m about to say may be discouraging, but it’s just one person’s opinion. F, for example, covers 5 frets. A full body model, a florentine cutaway and a sharp cutaway. I rather like the term CBOM for this family of instruments. Plus some folk’s are learning box from other instruments (flute, fiddle). Hi, i have a entry level Octave Mandolin - Hora. I play melody on mandolin, octave mandolin, and a bit of flute. Octave mandos are often tuned GDAD (bass-to-treble). But it is my personal favorite. John performs locally and internationally from his base in Boston, Massachusetts. I play melody on mandolin, octave mandolin, and a bit of flute. They sorta look like almost the same exact thing. The mandolin is an eight string instrument that is usually featured in country, bluegrass, and folk music. Actually, I am playing octave mando exclusively in the group at this time, as the lineup of piano, bass, drums, banjo and fiddle plus 3 vocalists presents a challenge of how to fit in with so much going on. Mandolins, bouzoukis, octave mandolas, citterns, tenor mandolas and all other types in the mandolin family plus accessories, books and music. The octave mandolin is usually tuned G-D-A-E like a mandolin, but one octave lower. If you aren’t a member of The Session yet, you can sign up now. We usually have 1 piper up to 3 or 4. I build three styles of Octaves, all of them archtop guitar bodied with a 20.25" scale length. Membership is free, and it only takes a moment to sign up. "Friend of the Devil," Grateful Dead. Because the pitch and timbre is similar to guitar, it’s easily buried by the inevitable guitar player in a group. I never took it to a session, I wouldn’t subject any of my friends to the sound. It’s a terrific, powerful sound. You know there’s a reason why the banjo gets picked on a lot and because the OM doesn’t. If you are new to the octave mando, the first thing you'll find is that it is nearly impossible to use traditional mandolin fingerings without stretching your hand into oblivion. He has recorded on Green Linnet, Narada, Rounder, and Flying Fish to name a few. I personally wouldn’t think that an OM would be that difficult but possibly you could choose some bright phosphor-bronze strings to give it the best go. But as others have mentioned, the OM didn’t have the punch or ring of the bouzouki, and got lost in the mud. When it comes to tuning your Pono Octave Mandolin, there’s no right or wrong. For melody it’s my first choice. The stars lined up for me this week and I managed to make it to five sessions in one week. No. There are 20 tunes included in the book, fully transcribed in tablature and standard notation, from Irish to blues and jazz, even a Venezualan waltz. Monty has it right about melody playing; let me add that with the OM’s sustain, ornamentation and slurs are much more "violinistic" than can be played on the smaller instrument, and crosspicking is WAY more effective, too. As the Reverend says, the slope is slippery and mine is littered with a lot of fretted instruments - including a banjo. In a loud session it may also be difficult for others to hear when you’re kicking off a tune set. The only good thing about the Luna was that with the cheap wood and all, it had a tone that would have stood out well in a session. Right now it’s a little fewer folk as a lot of the main players are in Ireland or elsewhere in the US teaching or playing festivals. Due to the length of the octave mandolin neck, standard mandolin fingerings do not always work. I had a TC zouk and got an OM made by Richard Hess. ), and I’m hard pressed to keep up with him on flute. Octave Mandolin. I haven’t played an archtop as of yet so that may be a route to inquire about. The band has been very supportive of my playing this axe, and Matt Glaser's credo of "All styles of music, all the time" has led me to play everything from straight bluegrass to bebop to who-knows-what-to-call-it. Sincere question, not snark. "Disadvantages" include the much longer scale, which makes four-string "closed" (no open strings) chords difficult to finger. It is commonly tuned in unison (both strings of the pair or course tuned to the same note). If you’re after volume and are not into the banjo, the Octave Mandolin is for you. Lower on the register still are octave mandolins (a full octave below a mandolin… The octave mandolin produces a rich haunting sound that is unlike any other stringed instrument. The history of the mandolin can be traced back to 13,000 BC. More information about John is available from our feature interview with him from July, 2011. The octave mandolin can be tuned the same as the bouzouki but with the shorter neck is much easier to play melodies while still giving a good chord sound. OM doesn’t have a dead, plingy sound (even amongst banjos, the tenor kind has the deadest sound) that, in the hands of a banjo player who gets bored with slow tempos, is easy to speed up and obstruct the music. Later on, I get more eighth-notey, particularly in the last 4 bars. The melodious sound of mandolin was produced when the strings plucked with a plectrum. OM is more difficult for me to play at faster tempos due, I suppose, to the double courses of strings and longer scale length. The New England Conservatory of Music grad has carved out a solid niche where contemporary folk, Americana, and roots music intersect. A cave painting in France depicts a beautiful musical bowl which is now known as the mandolin. You can also give it a bit more distinct sound that might help it be heard by putting octave strings on the two low courses. It’s a great sound but can be limiting without a capo. It seems to me that, if you are serious about using the octave mandolin as a melody instrument in sessions, you might do well to get an archtop instrument - these generally have more ‘punch’ than a typical flat-top. That’s basically just a slippery slope down to the banjo. The sustain is wonderful on tunes like marches, "metered airs," and slower settings of reels.
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